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The Official Fallout Group

Whether you feel like the original Fallout titles were better than 3, or never played the originals and are just wondering how Bethesda's amazing reinvention stacks up to its isometric predecessors, this is where you can meet up with other wastelanders and

Fallout 3 or New Vegas?

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  • Also, you might want to just watch the Travel Channel or something to get a better picture of third world countries. Yes, a huge number have casinos (helps draw in tourism), and very few would remind you of a post-apocalyptic nightmare world. If you want a first-hand account, I'm sure one of our members from Mexico, China, India, or any other third world nation can give you a more defined picture.

  • SuperKingC77:

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree then. You're interpretation of the Fallout "feel" seems more based in the lore and such, whereas mine is more based in the thematic undertones of the series. And you will never convince me that New Vegas had less meaningful locales than Fallout 3: I've played both games so extensively I know the maps like the back of my hand, so that's not something you will be able to change my personal view on. To each their own, glad you enjoyed New Vegas so much, but for me it is no contest between the two as to which gives a more meaningful and memorable experience. I love both games, but Fallout 3 has to win every time for me.

    Well glad you agree with me.  In all seriousness though, I could take the list of locations from both games and compare them if you really want me to prove my point.  Also, I understand the thematic undertones of the series quite well and thought both games handled them fine (New Vegas better in most ways, Fallout 3 in some cases), but New Vegas had a much better grasp on the lore of the series and made its setting consistent with the first two games in the series, where as Fallout 3 did not.  The fact that Fallout 3 was more devastated and had more of those 50's style billboards laying around does not make it more "Fallout-y."  There were elements of humor and style that New Vegas was miles ahead of Fallout 3 on

  • SuperKingC77:

    Also, you might want to just watch the Travel Channel or something to get a better picture of third world countries. Yes, a huge number have casinos (helps draw in tourism), and very few would remind you of a post-apocalyptic nightmare world. If you want a first-hand account, I'm sure one of our members from Mexico, China, India, or any other third world nation can give you a more defined picture.

    I didn't realize the Travel Channel could make people so educated.  When I say "third world," I'm not referring to countries that are at least partially industrialized or developing, which all of the nations you listed are.  I'm talking about countries where most people wouldn't even have a computer to post on this site.  I'm pretty sure no one is putting a casino in the middle of Africa.  The island nations that usually have casinos that you're referencing are very different culturally

  • Derp. You know what I meant :P and your last few points are exactly what I mean. You are more looking at the stuff like the billboards and humor, and yes, no question New Vegas was more similar to the old Fallout's in that nature. When I say the thematic undertones, I mean the survivor settlements battling against a harsh nature, where the biggest enemy you can face is the world itself. This is where I felt New Vegas really failed in it's thematic implication: The main story itself was primarily focused on a war for control of a valuable monetary resource, as opposed to Fallout 3, where the story was far more focused on survival from the world itself, as seen with the search for the GECK and in other instances.

    And as for the locations, like I said, even if you went through them one through one to try and prove your point, chances are I would significantly disagree with the points you made about the vast majority of the locations. I already disagree with you about several of the ones I mentioned as examples in the post on the matter I already made. It's simply a difference in what matters in a Fallout game between us: You enjoy ones that provide a more direct continuation of the lore and various world elements of the old games, so New Vegas is more fits your desires.

  • MaulYoda:

    SuperKingC77:

    Also, you might want to just watch the Travel Channel or something to get a better picture of third world countries. Yes, a huge number have casinos (helps draw in tourism), and very few would remind you of a post-apocalyptic nightmare world. If you want a first-hand account, I'm sure one of our members from Mexico, China, India, or any other third world nation can give you a more defined picture.

    I didn't realize the Travel Channel could make people so educated.  When I say "third world," I'm not referring to countries that are at least partially industrialized or developing, which all of the nations you listed are.  I'm talking about countries where most people wouldn't even have a computer to post on this site.  I'm pretty sure no one is putting a casino in the middle of Africa.  The island nations that usually have casinos that you're referencing are very different culturally

    When I said third world, I meant the actual definition of "third world" and those nations that are actually designated as "third world countries".

    And as far as your second claim: http://www.casinocity.com/casinos/

    There are 191 casinos in Africa, dispersed among 35 nations, including some of the absolute poorest in the world, such as Equatorial Guinea and Tanzania. Poor countries want casinos, because it draws in gambling money from people vacationing from wealthier nations, and thus equates to pure inflow of money from one nation to the other, as well as creating jobs for people in the vicinity of the casino. 

  • SuperKingC77:

    Derp. You know what I meant :P and your last few points are exactly what I mean. You are more looking at the stuff like the billboards and humor, and yes, no question New Vegas was more similar to the old Fallout's in that nature. When I say the thematic undertones, I mean the survivor settlements battling against a harsh nature, where the biggest enemy you can face is the world itself. This is where I felt New Vegas really failed in it's thematic implication: The main story itself was primarily focused on a war for control of a valuable monetary resource, as opposed to Fallout 3, where the story was far more focused on survival from the world itself, as seen with the search for the GECK and in other instances.

    And as for the locations, like I said, even if you went through them one through one to try and prove your point, chances are I would significantly disagree with the points you made about the vast majority of the locations. I already disagree with you about several of the ones I mentioned as examples in the post on the matter I already made. It's simply a difference in what matters in a Fallout game between us: You enjoy ones that provide a more direct continuation of the lore and various world elements of the old games, so New Vegas is more fits your desires.

    I never said I didn't enjoy Fallout 3 for what it was, I just didn't like it as a Fallout game.  Again, both games had their fair share of empty and meaningful locations, and I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with me saying the power stations and radio towers in Fallout 3 were just as empty as the shacks in New Vegas (and there were a fair number of both).  Also, that whole survivor mentality thing makes for a good post-apocalyptic game, but is not at all central to the themes of Fallout.  Certainly not by Fallout 2, but even in Fallout 1, most of the settlements were dragged down by the politics of the post-apocalyptic world (like in New Vegas) and others faced mutants and radscorpions and the like (like in New Vegas).  But all of them were much better off than any settlement in Fallout 3.  Furthermore, it's also pretty hard to evoke a survivor mentality when you can carry an armory's load of bullets and a hospital's worth of stimpaks on your person, and when many of the problems people face arise from their own stupidity

  • SuperKingC77:

    MaulYoda:

    SuperKingC77:

    Also, you might want to just watch the Travel Channel or something to get a better picture of third world countries. Yes, a huge number have casinos (helps draw in tourism), and very few would remind you of a post-apocalyptic nightmare world. If you want a first-hand account, I'm sure one of our members from Mexico, China, India, or any other third world nation can give you a more defined picture.

    I didn't realize the Travel Channel could make people so educated.  When I say "third world," I'm not referring to countries that are at least partially industrialized or developing, which all of the nations you listed are.  I'm talking about countries where most people wouldn't even have a computer to post on this site.  I'm pretty sure no one is putting a casino in the middle of Africa.  The island nations that usually have casinos that you're referencing are very different culturally

    When I said third world, I meant the actual definition of "third world" and those nations that are actually designated as "third world countries".

    And as far as your second claim: http://www.casinocity.com/casinos/

    There are 191 casinos in Africa, dispersed among 35 nations, including some of the absolute poorest in the world, such as Equatorial Guinea and Tanzania. Poor countries want casinos, because it draws in gambling money from people vacationing from wealthier nations, and thus equates to pure inflow of money from one nation to the other, as well as creating jobs for people in the vicinity of the casino. 

    I mean, I don't think potential superpowers are third world countries, but fair enough.  And I stand corrected on the casino bit...sort of.  Your point about casinos obviously makes sense, but when I said "middle of Africa," I meant literally the middle of Africa.  As you can see, countries like Chad and Sudan do not have casinos; I'm not surprised South Africa has casinos.  Furthermore, the casinos in New Vess are run by families; they don't exactly employ just anyone.  Not to mention people don't seem to be starving and are actually doing pretty well all things considered.  Point being: I don't think your analogy holds up.  I think Fallout 3 is much more like a third world country in the middle of a war, where everything is destroyed and people are supposedly struggling

  • To justify things mexico is a developing country in it own not 3rd world, india is well on its way to they have a greater infrastructure than some U.S. towns do, and china is in itself a super power one of the three among the sense along with russia and the U.S. so i think the term third world was used properly in this sense, as for the inclusion of casinos would strictly be to bring money to an area that desperately needs it gambling has been around for ages and money is not going to stop someone from gambling so in the sense i see maulyodas argument and think its poor feed back to tell someone to watch the travel channel to see third world countries l, its offensive in the sense, and highly uneducated iquiry do to the fact its rare for a channel of such popularity to show places of disconcering feelings to its viewers. And as for the games they each hold a special spot in my favorite games of all time 3 had a more drawn togther story making you a larger part of something else and vegas had an amazing atmosphere that was fun to play in!

    War, war never changes........

  • Victor Calva:
    To justify things mexico is a developing country in it own not 3rd world, india is well on its way to they have a greater infrastructure than some U.S. towns do, and china is in itself a super power one of the three among the sense along with russia and the U.S. so i think the term third world was used properly in this sense

    Wrong. By official definition, Mexico and India are 3rd world nations. A developing nation IS a third world nation, that is the accepted definition of the term. Technically China is classified as a second world nation due to it's history as a soviet block nation, but because of the extremely low GDP/Capita ratio (just because you have a large economy does not mean it is evenly split among 1.3 billion people) it is currently considered a third world/developing nation. So please do not give me a demography lesson when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    Victor Calva:
    as for the inclusion of casinos would strictly be to bring money to an area that desperately needs it gambling has been around for ages and money is not going to stop someone from gambling

    That was my argument, not MaulYoda's.

    Victor Calva:
    its poor feed back to tell someone to watch the travel channel to see third world countries l, its offensive in the sense, and highly uneducated iquiry do to the fact its rare for a channel of such popularity to show places of disconcering feelings to its viewers.

    Are you saying what I said was offensive? Are you kidding me? So me telling someone to watch a channel devoted to various locations of the world, where you actually see people on site and among the populations that live throughout the world in order to get a better understanding of foreign cultures without actually travelling to said places is offensive, but HIM COMPARING THE AVERAGE THIRD WORLD NATION TO A POST-APOCALYPTIC NIGHTMARE LAND WHERE LITTLE KIDS LIVE IN ARMED MILITIAS AND PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY AFRAID A SUPER MUTANT IS GOING TO KIDNAP THEM IN THEIR SLEEP ISN'T!? Please, go talk to someone from Mexico, or China, or Vietnam, and ask them which is more offensive: Someone asking another person to view a channel that runs documentaries on their countries to gain a more hands-on understanding of their lifestyle, or someone saying their countries are more similar to nightmare worlds than war-torn regions with resurging economies and exploitation due to economic value.

  • Also, here is the source for the third world information en.wikipedia.org/.../Third_World and you were also wrong about China and Russia being considered "superpowers". Russia was when the Soviet Union existed. When the Union fell, so did their rank as a superpower. China has never attained said status in modern history.

  • A straight line from Goodsprings goes right past Quarry Junction. you can take long out of the way routes but the most straight forward route goes right bast Quarry junction. Also the only notable loot in Dead Wind Caverns is Mercy and some power armor. The entire list of notable loot in the Deathclaw Sanctuary includes The endurance bobble head, a Nikola Tesla and You, a Nuka-Cola Quantam, a mini-nuke, Vengance, and Jack. That gives me a lot more satisfaction for clearing the place.

  • SuperKingC77:

    Victor Calva:
    To justify things mexico is a developing country in it own not 3rd world, india is well on its way to they have a greater infrastructure than some U.S. towns do, and china is in itself a super power one of the three among the sense along with russia and the U.S. so i think the term third world was used properly in this sense

    Wrong. By official definition, Mexico and India are 3rd world nations. A developing nation IS a third world nation, that is the accepted definition of the term. Technically China is classified as a second world nation due to it's history as a soviet block nation, but because of the extremely low GDP/Capita ratio (just because you have a large economy does not mean it is evenly split among 1.3 billion people) it is currently considered a third world/developing nation. So please do not give me a demography lesson when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    Victor Calva:
    as for the inclusion of casinos would strictly be to bring money to an area that desperately needs it gambling has been around for ages and money is not going to stop someone from gambling

    That was my argument, not MaulYoda's.

    Victor Calva:
    its poor feed back to tell someone to watch the travel channel to see third world countries l, its offensive in the sense, and highly uneducated iquiry do to the fact its rare for a channel of such popularity to show places of disconcering feelings to its viewers.

    Are you saying what I said was offensive? Are you kidding me? So me telling someone to watch a channel devoted to various locations of the world, where you actually see people on site and among the populations that live throughout the world in order to get a better understanding of foreign cultures without actually travelling to said places is offensive, but HIM COMPARING THE AVERAGE THIRD WORLD NATION TO A POST-APOCALYPTIC NIGHTMARE LAND WHERE LITTLE KIDS LIVE IN ARMED MILITIAS AND PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY AFRAID A SUPER MUTANT IS GOING TO KIDNAP THEM IN THEIR SLEEP ISN'T!? Please, go talk to someone from Mexico, or China, or Vietnam, and ask them which is more offensive: Someone asking another person to view a channel that runs documentaries on their countries to gain a more hands-on understanding of their lifestyle, or someone saying their countries are more similar to nightmare worlds than war-torn regions with resurging economies and exploitation due to economic value.

    Well, you're both getting worked up about this.  Relax

    SuperKing, my point isn't about the technicalities if you really want to argue with that.  Really, it was a term that originated during the Cold War to distinguish nations who chose to not take a side between NATO and the nations of the Warsaw Pact, so forget about it for a second.  Whether or not China is "third world" (which, as you say later in your post, it isn't), there are significant portions of the population that are doing just fine.  In fact, there are many areas in which they are doing BETTER than the US, a "first world country."  That's not the nations I'm talking about.  Oh, and I'm not comparing China, Vietnam, or Mexico to Fallout 3; Vietnam is doing relatively well and I think Mexico City and the bigger cities in China alone make up for a lot of the poverty (not all of it, mind you; they're not first world because of something, but they're better off than Fallout 3).  I'm talking about countries in Africa where people deal with starvation and civil war.

    And I don't see what's wrong with comparing some of the conditions that those countries are facing (with some exaggeration obviously) to Fallout 3.  I think that shows as much understanding and even some sympathy through virtual experiences for the conditions these people face (along with the amount of time I've spent studying this kind of stuff) as you could probably gain from the Travel Channel  I dont think thats offensive at; definitely not if you're saying watching the Travel Channel gives you the most enlightened and cultured perspective (not that I'm saying you are, but that's how Victor took it, which is why he's saying it's offensive).  It certainly doesn't mean I don't care, or that I don't think that these regions could use more foreign aid and all that.  I think if I to said someone living in Sudan, "Excuse me, but your country is pretty similar to a nightmare world of war-torn regions with resurging economies and exploitation due to economic value and where armed militias of children kidnap you in your sleep," they'd probably respond, "Yeah, that's about right and it sucks here."  You act like people who live in third world countries are conscious of the horrible conditions in which they live in. Either way, it's nothing to get worked up about because you misread my comment anyway, as I mentioned earlier (you know, me not at all talking about any of the countries you mentioned because you have this obsession with the technicalities of terms that impact your view of this discussion).

    Oh, and I hate to bring this up but aside from the super mutants, that exact situation is what Joseph Kony was doing, and certainly happens elsewhere (and it happened in Argentina during the 70's-80's).  Actually, on that note, the government is certainly willing to do something like that in China and there are criminal organizations in Mexico like the cartels that do.  So I guess you're just proving my point.  Also, the GDP per capita of China is low because some people make considerable livings in the urban areas of Bejing, Hong Kong, and the like while much of the people in the western region are horribly poor and living in small farming communities.  That poorer portion is certainly third world, but the industrialized segments really aren't (actually, it'd probably even out to about second world, which as you said China is classified as)

    As for Victor, I already know the first thing you said, and I assumed SuperKing did too if he was arguing about the technicalities of third world countries.  I mean, he well understands that China is a second world nation, or is at least classified as such.  And as I said, the definition was originally just a political term to distinguish sides in the Cold War.  So yeah, thanks for the back-up.  Also, you're right in saying to him that it doesn't make him an infinite understanding of all of this (and I'm pretty sure the Travel Channel goes to far less bleak portions of the world than the most poverty stricken countries), but he wasn't saying that.  He was saying it gives you some perspective (which it doesn't) and certainly doesn't mean it exaggeratedly or offensively.  SuperKing cleared his implications up in his post.  You're right though that it's a poor argument to tell someone to watch the Travel Channel to become more cultured (which it does make you a bit, but still not a statement to take seriously)

  • SuperKingC77:

    Also, here is the source for the third world information en.wikipedia.org/.../Third_World and you were also wrong about China and Russia being considered "superpowers". Russia was when the Soviet Union existed. When the Union fell, so did their rank as a superpower. China has never attained said status in modern history.

    ^^^I mean, the Soviet Union wasn't doing that great either, which is part of what led to their collapse.  And yeah, I've talked to people who have visited Russia or were born there; there's a lot of areas that are very poverty ridden (same with China, and again from talking to people who have been).  It's still an industrialized nation, as is China.  But really, there are only so many powerful nations in the world and if we're not going to just refer to one nation as the super power, then Russia ranks up there.  But back to my overall point, the fact that you'd lump China with Chad is ridiculous.  Because I wasn't in my post at all

  • Dr MoO III:

    A straight line from Goodsprings goes right past Quarry Junction. you can take long out of the way routes but the most straight forward route goes right bast Quarry junction. Also the only notable loot in Dead Wind Caverns is Mercy and some power armor. The entire list of notable loot in the Deathclaw Sanctuary includes The endurance bobble head, a Nikola Tesla and You, a Nuka-Cola Quantam, a mini-nuke, Vengance, and Jack. That gives me a lot more satisfaction for clearing the place.

    You don't have to enter the actual quarry and fight deathclaws to get to New Vegas.  Also, New Vegas doesn't have the mechanic breaking bobbleheads, I wouldn't consider that fetch quest BS Quantum that fulfilling (not that the Sarsaparilla caps were much better), nor would I count a mini nuke.  I wouldn't really count power armor either so I guess that leaves three unique and rare items (four if you want to count the bobblehead) to one in the Cavern.  And even if Fallout 3 wins out on loot in this particular location (because there was a lot more loot and things to do with it in New Vegas), there was actually a challenge to Dead Winds Cavern because the deathclaws weren't pushovers and VATS wasn't overpowered

  • First there are plenty of deathclaws that are problems outside of the Quarry that you have to deal with, and it feels like you are forced to travel south when you get out Good springs. Second, I am just saying that to me exploring the caves of New Vegas didn't cut it. they all seemed pretty barren and I did not like that. Every where i went in Fallout 3 had  more to find in the game. I will agree with you that the combat, and gunplay were improved in New Vegas, but i think that Fallout is more than that.

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