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(I may be repeating what others have said, but I'm too lazy to care.)
The important thing to remember is that homosexual attraction isn't a sin. It only becomes sinful if you act on it--same as for straight folks. (Which leads to some interesting loopholes, in that you could technically be in a homosexual relationship, but so long as you didn't get physical, no sin. At least in my interpretation. Because it's only "LYING with another man." Nothing about doing taxes or living together or adopting children or anything else.) In addition, remember science indicates that sexual orientation isn't a choice--in most cases--but is biologically determined. And as others have said, you shouldn't treat ANYBODY different because of their orientation/skin color/religion/whatever. Hatred and discrimination aren't Christian. Unless you're hating Hitler. That's all right, I guess.
I do know that lust is a sin, so just thinking about another person sexually is a sin. I guess if you weren't physically attracted to that person at all, it'd be okay. Then, still, I wouldn't see the point. And I don't believe that homosexuality is biological. It's a choice, a lifestyle. The Bible says that any other lifestyle, sexually, is a sin. That includes with the same sex, animal, incest, etc.
"And I don't believe that homosexuality is biological." That's all well and good, but by the same token, it isn't fair to judge others solely based on your belief. Believing homosexuality isn't biological doesn't make it true for anyone else.
Warlord, it depends on whether you stop thinking once you realize you're thinking. Because while you can control your thoughts, you also can't control them, if that makes sense. So thinking about a person sexually is only a sin if you're consciously doing it. Also, I would assume that if you're married to someone, lusting after them ISN'T a sin.
As for whether homosexuality is biological, I'm gonna side with science. The act itself MAY be wrong, but that doesn't mean the attraction necessarily is. Homosexuality has been observed in animals--dolphins, for example, exhibit homosexual behavior. (They also rape humans, so...yeah. Dolphins are kinky.)
And to be honest, if sexuality is a choice, there'd be a lot less homosexual people. Large areas of the world are homophobic--why would you CHOOSE to be gay in a place where you'll be stoned or ostracized for your choice? Even in America, being gay isn't exactly all happy-happy fun times.
And if homosexuality is such a choice, then why has it appeared all over the world? Japan, Greece, Rome, even some Native American tribes. They all were okay with homosexuality, until the Christians showed up. So if it's so unnatural, you'd expect these civilizations to abhor it.
I don't claim to have the answers. (That's something you'll have to take up with God, when/if you meet Him someday.) I'm just a devil's advocate. It's my self-assigned role in life to question everybody. I'm just as likely to question my own faith as another's faith (or lack of it.)
(More animals than dolphins exhibit those tendencies. They're just the ones I can remember.)
Also, for what it's worth, my faith teaches that homosexual acts are a sin. I don't entirely agree with that, but I accept what the church teaches.
I know that a sexual attraction to your spouse is okay. This wasn't from you, but I don't judge others based on what they believe. I'm not sure where that comment even came from.
Anyway, while you may feel an attraction to the same sex, your decision to live like that is a conscious choice. You don't just feel attracted to the same sex and magically become gay. You make the choice to be that way, to live that lifestyle.
Okay I'm jumping in sort of late and don't really know everything that's been covered. I'm wouldn't say homosexuality is biological. I don't believe people are born homosexual. But I do believe homosexual tendencies start at a very young age. There are a lot of factors that go into this but I don't think that someone is born gay. Some people might have more of a tendency towards it (Like Native Americans and alcoholism) but I don't believe people are born gay.
Second there are no loopholes. You can't live with someone and adopt kids and as long as you don't get physical it isn't sin. Lusting after someone is committing the sin of adultery. Jesus says that even if you look at someone with sexual desires it is sin. So you can't "technically" be in a gay relationship and not sin. This doesn't not include your heterosexual spouse because you are in the marriage covenant and it dose not include of you simply think about someone you see and think "Hey they're really hot". It comes down to if you meditate on that. If you think about them continuously and have some sort of fantasy in your head that is sin.
Again I'd like to say even if homosexuality is a genetic should we let people continue in it. From a biological stand point we are not using our body in a way it was designed. From a social stand point we are not able to help continue in the growth of human life. Society will eventually demise. Then there's the where does it end? If the reason to support homosexuality is: "They are two people in love" or "They just want happiness" then where does it end? What prevents a two siblings from marrying? Or Caudex's dophin and someone from marrying. Animals show affection and if someone loved back why can't they marry it?(That's called beastiality folks). What would also stop polygamy? It is multiple consenting people marrying one another.
You also say that since it appears around the world how can it be a choice? Well when you think about how many things appear around the world that are similar (like humans' love for hamburgers) then you'd understand that just because something occurs often doesn't mean it's biological (no one is genetically destined to like hamburgers).
And more importantly than all of this so say that you don't agree that homosexual acts are sin, why is that? What do you consider a homosexual act? Why do you accept that teaching if you don't agree with it? Why should homosexuality not be considered a sin? Is the Bible not infallible and truly the Word of God? I ask you to think about those questions and feel free to respond or not.
And again something else very important: Heterosexual actions (outside of marriage) are sin. God doesn't say that a someone who lusts after the same sex is committing a sin any greater than someone how lusts after the opposite sex. It is still sin at the end of the day and separates us from God. But because of His love and for us He sent Jesus to pay the price for all our sins. So that we may have everlasting life. And I encourage everyone to flee from immorality, in every form, as we endure in our race to be examples of Christ to this lost world.
Sorry the post is so long I just love the groups deep convos.
Nicely put. I liked the explanation.
Ham, for the record, it's spelled "bestiality." :)
I don't feel like doing this anymore, since I don't have a lot of free time anyway. It's nothing against you guys. Normally I'd happily do this. I think discussion is important, even if we don't agree. I just don't have the time or energy right now.
I'll leave you with this.
As for whether I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God? Well, that's a whole nuther story--I've got a thick notebook filled with what appear to be mistakes and contradictions. :P
Interesting video. Now it sparks some more questions. Is racial inequality the same as homosexual inequality? Do people's actions equate to Scriptural mistakes? If people misinterpret the Bible for their own benefits does that make the Bible wrong? What scriptures were used by these pastors that promoted segregation? I encourage you not to use "Christians" as a way to know "Christ". There are many who say they are and they end up being one in name only. Just some things to think about. No need to post back.
Now we can start a new convo on the Bible's integrity. First of all what do you believe about God in general? What do you believe the Bible is? What is your faith? You mentioned it early but what is it. Tell me about it :) What mistakes does the Bible contain? What are some contradictions? Explain a couple of these, which won't be very hard seeing as you have a notebook full of them. Don't feel obligated to respond. You said your busy, I know that I'm very busy right now. Just stuff to think about. :)
And this should probably get a different thread seeing as it left the topic of homosexuality.
Caudex:As for whether I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God? Well, that's a whole nuther story--I've got a thick notebook filled with what appear to be mistakes and contradictions. :P
If you chose to believe that, then congratulations, you've invalidated Christianity as a whole, in which case the forces of Subjectivism, Individualism, Relativism, and every other illegitimate brain child of every skeptic, atheistic, and hypocritical philosopher of the past 300 years. That is dangerous. We as Christians are called to hold the line between good and evil. We cannot waver, and when we undermine our very foundation, we threaten everything.
And those 'contradictions?' I've seen a lot of them, and most, if not all are products of a poor understanding of Aramaic and Greek, and the Bible itself. Language is a tricky thing, and most of the time, things become muddled or lost in translation, as we move from a language where the word for neighbor and cousin is also the word for brother.
And I saw Ham's post as I was typing this. Agreed, good idea. (to Ham)
Just that Awesome:We as Christians are called to hold the line between good and evil. We cannot waver, and when we undermine our very foundation, we threaten everything.
As Christians, we are called to be the good in a world seemingly ruled by evil. From that, it seems like you're saying that Christians should walk the line between them, be neutral. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Mistakes and contradictions? Are you labeling the Bible based on others' misunderstanding of it? As far as I see it, the Word of God is perfect (John 1:1-5).
I believe you are misinterpreting him. I believe he meant that we uphold the line. He didn't say we walk the line, just that we maintain it.
Ham, Awesome, you always amaze me when you write such posts. I can never get the right words. Well done!
Now you're playing with power!
What Volt said.
And believe me Volt, I amaze myself that my posts are coherent, let alone manage to inspire or amaze someone.