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Why the Wii U can't be a "hardcore" console

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  • It's really beginning to bother me that Nintendo's role in the console wars has been/is/will be the kiddie platform. The Wii U will most likely have way too many peripherals and will be the console that a bunch of kids play at parties instead of one that adamant gamers come home to and play for consecutive hours. It's not Nintendo's fault that they have become this way, it's the gaming community's fault and my reasoning for that is Nintendo now has to have a gimmicky, unique feature to sell hardware (motion controls, 3D). Now it's the gamepad, which I personally can't stand but Nintendo has to sell buyers on it because if they made a powerful console that just had the pro controller, a blu ray drive, and a large hard drive with their exclusives and major third party games, it would be last in the console wars and couldn't touch the new Xbox/PS. Think about a "hardcore" Nintendo system being put in this console generation, a decent amount of gamers might appreciate it but in the end, Nintendo wouldn't stand a chance...*sigh* 

  • I'd say your logic is faulty, but then, there'd have to be logic there in the first place.

     

    So let's address some of your "things."

    The Wii U and GamePad have been out for all of two whole days.  It's irresponsible and foolish to jump jump up and call the GamePad "gimmicky" when it hasn't even been given a chance to succeed or fail.  You want to call something gimmicky?  Call Kinect gimmicky or PS Move.  We've given them two years, and they've largely failed to live up to their promised potential.  Nearly every hardcore-focused Kinect game has limped it's way to a market that flatly ignored their existence outside of mocking them.

     

    I think the only people who force this "kiddie" image onto Nintendo are people who aren't real gamers.  Real gamers know what Nintendo's systems have offered, and would take the time to learn about the games and consoles.  What's a "real" gamer?  A hobbyist.  Someone who loves video games for gaming and isn't cruelly fanboyish about anything--these are the people eager for new technology, and eager to see how it works with games.

     

    Nintendo has ALWAYS been focused on two main things for its gaming and consoles:  Family friendly games and gameplay, and solid hardcore-heavy experiences.  The SNES may have been the family friendly console of it's generation--but it also had the superior port of Mortal Kombat II, and the best console release of Doom until the Playstation.

     

    So you're saying the Wii U isn't a hardcore system?  Based on what?  A controller that gives us all the elements we need to play any Xbox 360 or PS3 game, and then some?  This thing has all sorts of promise, especially in something like a god game (Doshin the Giant, maybe) or something like Civilization which could put all hefty item management in one place leaving the TV screen for other things.  Hell, it's the only console out now that could actually support a PC-style inventory screen.

     

    So this system isn't magically "hardcore" enough?  Yes it is.  And for that matter, so was the Wii.  I've looked.  The Wii featured over 100 exclusive hardcore 3rd party games that averaged above a 70 on Metacritic.  JPRG's, action games, sim games, fighting games, etc.  Tatsunoko vs Capcom, MadWorld, Deadly Creatures, Dead Space Extraction, House of the Dead: Overkill (originally exclusive).  Arc Rise Fantasia, Rune Factory, Little King's Story, The Last Story, Harvest Moon, Fragile.  On top of that, it featured ports of nearly ever Call of Duty title over this generation.

     

    What's your abstract definition of a hardcore console, anyway?  Same exact controller as the last two or three generations?  Same exact games as the last two or three generations?  Everything exactly the same but slightly prettier meaning we get bored faster as the games become increasingly more predictable?  Because that's the route Sony went down--afraid to change anything for three generations.  

     

    If Nintendo made just another powerful console with the list of things you mentioned--regular controller, Blu-Ray drive, large harddrive, nothing different--it wouldn't sell.  You know how I know?  Because I was the when THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.  The GameCube was Nintendo's "just like everyone else" console.   Similar controller, similar buttons, similar storage medium, perfectly even power (between the PS2 and Xbox), pretty much all the same multiplatform games that the other guys got, right down to Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, and Soulcalibur.  

     

    Guess what?  It didn't sell.  I sold the worst out the main three consoles of that generation. A whopping 21 million over 5 years.  The 3DS has already outsold it.  When Nintendo acted exactly like everyone else, it bombed.  It didn't work.  It was a great console--one of my all time favorites.  But it was a warning sign to Nintendo--change, or fade away.  The same old crap won't work anymore.

     

    You think it worked for Sony or Microsoft?  It didn't.  Look at them now.  There's no clear victor, no clear winner.  Two nearly identical consoles will be finishing out their generation sharing second place--so similar to one another that even their sales are the same.  

     

    Sure, everyone sold a whoppingly massive number of consoles this generation--tons and tons of machines.  The most of any generation ever.  But that's not going to last, and success in the next generation will not be immediate.  Frankly, I have doubts that the next generation will surpass this one in sales.  I think the industry peaked for the moment.  Last generation, the PS2 had the lions share of the sales--ending at over 140 million.  Now, the PS3 and Xbox share those numbers evenly, and the Wii adds nearly a hundred million more on it's own.  Real gaming machines face new competition from tablets and phones, the casual gamers are going there.  Reinvent or die.  Experiment or fail.

     

    And I would almost guarantee you that one of the other two guys--either Microsoft or Sony--will copy Nintendo on this and release their own GamePad or something like it.  Normally, I'd guess Sony since they copy nearly everything Nintendo does, but given their stubbornness in keeping the same crappy controller for three generations, only changing enough to make it worse, I have some doubts.  Besides which, rumors have already suggested MS might be making one such a controller for Durango--along with Kinect 2.  And then there's Ouya--frankly, I think there are too many odds and strikes against it for true success as a console, but I honestly hope it impedes the market enough to throw MS and/or Sony off balance.  

     

    The Wii U is a nice, fascinating system so far.  It has the potential to be a great system. Your worrying is for naught.  You should get over yourself and actually play it.

     

  • Nicely put RezidentHazard (rides again).

    I’ll just add a few things.

    1st. I don’t understand some people attitude towards Nintendo and the people that enjoy their products.

    I’m a gamer; I like my PS3, my PC for shooters, diablo, WoW and other crap and my Wii U for Nintendo exclusives.

    I got my Wii U on day one and I’m happy with my purchase.

    Zombie U is a good game, Mario U is little more challenging and fun this time around (I personally prefer 2d Mario’s over 3d) and Nintendo Land is fun to play with friends and family.

    As I see it, Nintendo has something for everyone.

    2nd. I don’t see a need for a Blu-ray player. If you have a good TV why would you watch a movie on a crappy PS3 blu-ray player?  

    I don’t buy game systems to watch movies…I buy them to play games!

  • A kiddie platform is probably the wrong term.  To me Nintendo has a bit of an identity issue when it comes to many "hardcore gamers"  Think Xbox, what do you think of, Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable, and a few others.  Think Playstation and you think of Uncharted, God of War, Resistance, Kill Zone, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo and such.

    Then think Nintendo, what comes to mind?  Obviously Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, etc.  Now you look at all 3 clearly 1 of those has more family friendly franchises.  A second issue Nintendo has had this last generation was sadly the performance of the system.  If you look at the main gaming market, that has a disposable income to purchase games you are probably looking at 16-25 year old, mostly males.  

    Now if you take this same primary purchasing market and offer them 2 consoles, one of them is going to offer you games like (lets say the PS3) God of War, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Mass Effect, Dark/Demon Souls, Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead, Elder Scrolls, Fallout...etc.  The 2nd console is going to offer you All the great Mario games, Zeldas, Smash brothers, Metroid, Donkey Kong, and so on.  Seems to me very likely that this same group of 16-25 year old males are going to go with the console that provides them with the....more mature rated games if you will.  Especially when you add in the multiplayer factor and give them voice chat and such to take out there testosterone driven rage.

    The way I see it the quickest way for Nintendo to drop the "kiddie" titles is to ensure their consoles offer enough power that many of the top selling third party games dont pass them over.  if I could play Mario, and Battlefield on the same console it would be an instant buy for me.  This is where I am concerned with the Wii U.  If they are making profits off the console after 1 game sale (especially when you take into account the increased production cost of the controller and a proprietary disk format) then I am worried that when we see our Nextboxes and PS4 the Wii U is again going to be a 1/2 generation or so behind in terms of tech.  If rumors turn out to be true the Nextbox is going to have 4X the memory and processing power of the Wii U (if this is actually the Wii U processor en.wikipedia.org/.../Espresso_%28microprocessor%29 )

    Sadly to me it seems like in 3 or 4 years if you want to play both top end 3rd party games and Nintendo exclusives you will need 2 consoles again.

    We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open.

    Steam - palor700   XBL - LooneyPilot   paxgaming.com

  • First off, you went into way too much detail, however you make many valid points. I guess what bothers is that people who aren't true gamers and are more casual write off Nintendo as the kiddie company. I am not dooming the Wii U but I wish more games would be developed for the Pro Controller as well as the Gamepad because I think the Gamepad is not all it's hyped up to be and a lot of the Wii U's power is used to make the dual screen set up work when it could be used to make more intense games that would show the PS3/360 up but that's not going to happen.

    You also need to remember Kinect's sales and it's support. I also think it would help the Wii U to have an achievement system that would give you an idea of how much work you've put into games and you could compare with your friends. This is also a more "hardcore" view though and could be completely wrong. I'm not an expert, just a skeptic and a gamer that doesn't like Nintendo's direction as of late.

  • I agree with you quite a bit. Obviously my rant was not perfect but your response was along the same lines of what I was going for. For example, I adore Starfox but the last worth playing, new Starfox game (not a remake of 64), was Adventure for the Gamecube. If they did a new Starfox Adventure for Wii U I would turn into a giddy little schoolgirl.

  • I was just comparing it to the current and near future consoles, a blu ray drive is not a necessity by any means. But why can't Nintendo make consoles that shine with first party (HD) exclusives and new ip's with a solid online proponent but still have your FPS's, Fighting Games, and so on...

  • Furthermore, the original Wii was basically a Gamecube with motion controls and full sized discs. The Wii had a lot of 3rd party support from abstract games that nobody wanted to try but it sold like crazy because of the family image and Wii Fit and dance games. The Wii still doesn't play dvd's or cd's not that it's a major flaw but the ps2 was a wonderful dvd player to have and the ps3 is the best blu ray player. The Wii U could be handled differently for sure but it's not really bad as is, look at the sales. I'm just skeptical and you went a bit too far.

  • Wii U is a strong platform. They are the leaders in innovation right now. Microsoft and Sony have been pumping out the same systems for ten years now and all they have managed to do is improve graphics and processing speed. Nintendo has come up with an entire new way to control and interact in the virtual world known as a video game. Games such as Zombie U and Assassins Creed 3 also prove that this is a legitimate system that can be played by all gamers and all ages as well. Games like nintendoland are great for family and kids. Where as the exclusive games like Zombie U lend to the Nintendo gaming collections mature content. I'm a microsoft guy who wouldn't come off his xbox for anything but when the Wii U came out I had to admit Nintendo stepped up and i look forward to the much needed improvements to the kinect and the ps move. The Wii U in my personal opinion outperforms the kinect and ps move any day of the week. The graphics are improving as well. Lost are the ways of the paper mario with bright pastel colors. Here are the 3d neon colors that are expected with an up to date system. Over all the Wii U is stereotyped as a kiddie platform because the Wii was as well. I think it's because when they started using the wii and the kinect and all the move products the tech wasn't up to date with the games. So all the games were the generics, mario, tennis, baseball, all the simple "kiddie" games. I think the Wii U catches a bad rap as well as the original Wii simply because Nintendo dropped a new system that was ahead of its time. Now the tech is starting to catch up and the games and operating issues are getting better all the time. And i think prosephstalin is mad...

  • Wait... leaders in innovation is a touchscreen? And not even a multi-touch touchscreen?

  • Frib on Fire:

    Wait... leaders in innovation is a touchscreen? And not even a multi-touch touchscreen?

     

    Why would it need a multi-touch screen?

     

    No doubt, if it did have a multi-touch screen, you'd just complain about that and how stupid it is for Nintendo to use a more expensive multi-touch screen when it's unnecessary because the screen is surrounded by buttons, because as we all well know, the only reason phones and tablets need them is because they lack buttons.  

     

    Further evidence that you're just here to troll.  But if you really are that ignorant and unthinking, then I'm happy to give you information.

  • Wow crazy stuff guys I sense some built up frustration on the big N.Lets make this short.....the Wii sucked other then nintendo exclusives it was lifeless.Now they come out with something that fits the mold and everyone cry's fowl.Nintendo has caused their fans to loose faith in their product so hopefully the wii u can put this argument to rest.If not we will all have a new paperweight that cost us 300 bucks.

  • Wow crazy stuff guys I sense some built up frustration on the big N.Lets make this short.....the Wii sucked other then nintendo exclusives it was lifeless.Now they come out with something that fits the mold and everyone cry's fowl.Nintendo has caused their fans to loose faith in their product so hopefully the wii u can put this argument to rest.If not we will all have a new paperweight that cost us 300 bucks.

  • Wow crazy stuff guys I sense some built up frustration on the big N.Lets make this short.....the Wii sucked other then nintendo exclusives it was lifeless.Now they come out with something that fits the mold and everyone cry's fowl.Nintendo has caused their fans to loose faith in their product so hopefully the wii u can put this argument to rest.If not we will all have a new paperweight that cost us 300 bucks.

  • Nintendo isn't the kiddie platform, it's moreso the lazy platform. Nintendo seems to have become a company that's become super focused on itself in the way that many of Silicon Valley are stuck in their own wants and needs when compared to people elsewhere. That type of company culture results in more games being made for developers than for gamer. Metroid Other M is a recent example of this.

    Children are more open to playing and trying out different games no matter how obtuse or poor that they are as long as it appeals to them in some sort of way. Some of Nintendo's games have arguably become much more obtuse in recent years and it's a trend that has started with the end of the Super Nintendo.

    The Wii changed this for a bit and the hand helds didn't feel the effects of this much until recent years. That's why the kiddie stigma rarely ever leaves, the are companies that do that type of insulated gaming development much better than them on other platforms.

    Peripherals are not an issue, it's moreso compelling content for the peripherals. Guitar Hero and Rockband kept showering us with plastic instruments, DDR is always bringing us mats, mics with karaoke games, special guns for light gun games, and weird one off controllers like the Ultimate Kickboxing Arena for the PS2 are the norm for console gaming.

    We get weird controllers and that's fine. Nothing wrong with choice, choice in controllers used to be a natural gaming right. You tell a child what to do and how to do it, you allow an adult to choose their tool for whatever task is at hand. The limiting of controllers and controls would be more likely to be kiddie oriented than anything else.

    In gaming, a gimmick is anything that doesn't add to gameplay. You can view video games in multiple contexts, the motion sensing can be used as a gimmick to market to people but their execution (the games) can show true substance. People went crazy over Wii Sports because of the simplicity and the focus on the gameplay. It was a quality game and Nintendo's only real game that did anything worth mentioning with motion controls. The Wii did ship with a motion controller by default but the mission of the system was to bring forth simpler, more focused gameplay via a less intimidating controller. I can't go back and play SSX 3 without reading the manual and mucking about with the controls for a few minutes. I can get back into SSX Blur instantly (although it still could have been done better).

    The Wii U is a hardcord Nintendo system. That's the sucky thing about it, they just basically flipped everyone the bird and are on their knees trying to give the hardcore bj's with this system while trying to retain their expanded audience. You can't serve two masters Nintendo, you will only truly be serving one and resenting the other. Based upon the design and reception of the 3DS, Iwata Asks and other reviews Nintendo doesn't like their expanded audience. They still want their audience so they reused the Wii branding but tried to repackage the Gamecube in a modern interpretation.

    I'm one of the biggest Nintendo fans that you'll ever meet, does not mean that I'm happy with the company and most of their actions in recent years.

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