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GI Show 104: Mass Effect Controversy, Review Round-Up

It's not often that we revisit a recently released game on the GI Show, but with the furor over the ending to Mass Effect 3 raging throughout the Internet, we thought we should weigh in on fans' complaints about the game's ending, the recently filed FTC complaint, and BioWare's statement that it will be addressing player concerns with new content. Sitting in on this segment with host Matt Helgeson is Phil Kollar and Joe Juba, who have some strong opinions about these recent events. In the second segment, Dan Ryckert, Tim Turi, and Jeff Cork stop by to talk about a trio of new releases: Kid Icarus: Uprising, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, and Ninja Gaiden 3.

Attachment: http://media1.gameinformer.com/media/audio/theshow/ep104/theshow-ep104.mp3

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  • Sorry if this is a little long, but I wanted to say a few things that continue to bug me from how the press is covering this.

    1. They keep going back to this mystical idea of 'bioware's vision' as this sort of immutable fact that fans need to accept. The problem with that is that bioware's vision was always explained to us as crafting an experience where we can live out our story.

    If they had wanted to make a JRPG style story with a specific ending they should have been upfront about it. Bioware has done RPGs before, and nearly all of them have more, and more varied, endings than this, which is supposed to be their crown jewel of player choice.

    2. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE NORMAL. The press keeps acting like this is just another tuesday or something. This kind of unified, large-scale rage has never happened before, and is unlikely to just start happening to every game now. What happened here was an act of collective will; if it had been anything less, bioware would have ignored it.

    Take the Assassin's Creed series for example. Everyone hates Desmond, it is made very clear all the time that he is really boring compared to the historical stuff. This has not led to petitions, or protests, or calls to patch him out of existing. It's a minor annoyance and so people roll with it.

    What happened here was unprecedented, and as such needed to be addressed. It will be interesting to see how bioware chooses to address it, but make no mistake; ignoring such a huge outpouring of anger would have been, in a business sense, the absolute stupidest thing bioware could have done, 'artistic vision' be damned.
  • Remember when we used to launch rocket ships into outer space? Like, for real? Imagine if we could harness all this angry energy into bringing back a successful space program, maybe America could go back to discovering the mysteries of space exploration. Where are the petitions to help NASA get more funding? What if we cared about real life things as much as we cared about video games?
  • Alright. I finished my first run through of ME3 two nights ago. The ending was super "OK". I had read the posts bashing the endings, so I was prepared for the worst. Yes it could have been better, but the game itself was just "OK". The quests were a collection of disconnected outings that didn't really carry the story anywhere. Compared to the previous games in the series, it lacked anything to keep me vested in the outcome. I really had few decisions that affected the game, and there was ALOT of cinema that I was just a spectator for. There was nothing to drive the story.

    Also, many of my decisions from the previous games did not carry over to the new game. I had Anderson as the councel rep in ME2. Did he get demoted?

    I was very excited for the game to come out. I was out at midnight to get my copy. And I feel kinda cheated. However, I don't expect , or want, a new ending or more DLC to "fill in the blanks." Why would I expect it to be better? I will simply do what I can as a consumer. Don't buy more boiware games. At least not new. That sends a strong message.

  • If you wanted to do this discussion some genuine justice, you should have included one of your staff members who (as you mention) disliked the ending. Having two people on the show who think the players are being a bit silly and one who has no opinion doesn't really get to the essence of this argument. I feel very much that most critics - yourself included - gave ME3 an absolutely glowing review and now have no choice but to double down.
  • I don't really want them to make a new ending, but to expand on and clarify the vague one they released. I don't think it's entitlement to ask that 100+ hours of dedication to their product be rewarded with more than an ending with no explanation or resolution of the actual effects of the 11th-hour-from-right-field reveal we got.
  • I disliked the ending and a little confused but I won't pay to get a new ending. I might still buy their future products but this and Dragon Age 2 has made me a little wary.

  • Before the controversy Bioware was already hinting at continuing the story through DLC.
  • Changing the ending because people didn't like it is one thing, wanting a new ending to replace the one that contradicts with everything in the mass effect lore is another.
    Bio should just go with the indoctrination theory (if that wasn't their original plan in the first place, i might be giving them to much credit.) and they can make their own ending from there, with Shepard waking up after the dream, where the choices you made since '07 matter and closure of course, besides that theory is the only thing holding together that sh*t storm of an ending.
    The game is still amazing its just that stupid ending...

    also
    How can you like an ending that makes no sense!?
    Where you not paying attention? or did you just went with it?
  • Alright, I finished Mass Effect 3 a couple nights ago. I had been reading the complaints so I didn't expect much. It was better than I expected, but my issue was not with the ending. It was with most of the game. The quests seemed very disconnected and mostly unrelated. The team members were shallow and I mostly didn't care about them. No decisions I made affected the game, so I wasn't vested in the outcome of the game. Generally, it was a weaker game than either of it's predecessors.

    Rather than complain, I will do what a smart consumer should do. I just won't buy any DLC or another Bioware product. At least not new.

  • I see now... If only I could go back and not kill Marauder Shields. He was trying to save me from the ending, but I realized this to late.... He tried to save us all from the ending... *salutes* Marauder Shields is a damn hero, his sacrifice for the players will be remembered even if he tried and failed. Knowing now what I know... I wish Marauder Shields had succeeded!
  • [Spoilers: you have been warned]

    All i have to say is that the ending was perfect up until after the confrontation with the Illusive man. the choices and lack of closure is all that upset me. besides i would still give the game a perfect score overall (which i did because i review games for my school paper lol)The fighting was intense! and seeing Harbinger firing at you while you run the the conduit was probably on of my favorite moments from the mass effect trilogy.

  • Thought the ending was great. Very complex, and very intense. Seems like most don't have the mental capacity to really understand the last 5 minutes of the game. The final decision being his to have... Great! And further made his legacy as a character that much better. Question is now... What's next? And what will they name it? They left the door wide open it seems. Loved the whole game. But not wanting to dog others who don't like it, but for the younger ones... I don't think they really knew what happend in those last moments lol. As for the others, everyone has the their preference.
  • Everyone and I really mean everyone says Me3 is a great game!!!! But that end does not suit the game. Spoilers!!! I does not matter how many choices there was, 2 would be enough but the problem is the outcome.2 choices like destroy or let the reapers live would be ok if people saw the amount of outcome there was. Who joined you in the last battle would determine how earth would end up after the whole battle and how many of your allies died. I must say you guys have very little knowledge about the problems and it would have meant a lot if the guys at GI that disliked the ending would have joined you. Bioware must know the ending is crap because the first script of the end that they cut out was so much more like mass effect than the one they have. The whole mass effect series pointed to the dark energy end and in the last minute they cut it and paste a terribly artistic end.

  • It is not a matter of changing the ending. It is a matter of giving all those that expected more, what they want. Many are saying that they liked the ending, and to that I say, great, good for you. You got your money's worth. But then you come and saying: "well, I hope they don't change it because I liked it" is the equivalent of saying that if I am unhappy with the product, then *** me all the way to botswana. "Pandering to the entitled whinners", correct? With that said, let me give you a little insight of why I hate the damn endings. I purchased Mass Effect for the story, not the shooting, not the cover system, or the pretty graphics. All those are: some expected out of a current system's stats, and the other, simple icing on the cake. Frankly, if all I cared was for the action packed shooting and combat, then I would have purchased something more capable of delivering said experience - regardless of the less than great plot, like Gears of War 3 or Bulletstorm, those games are far more competent than Mass Effect - as a whole, in the whole combat department. I am by no means saying that ME3's narrative or story was bad. It was great, but the final mission and the ending(s) throw everything out the window. This begets the question, then what was the point of everything. As far as it goes, no it did not deliver what it promised me, and that makes it not worth my bucks. To me 3 copy pasted endings and enough plot holes to turn a mile long chunk of road into swiss cheese is enough to piss me off a great deal. Sure, I will be the first to agree that many are taking this too far. Do I expect BioWare to change the ending? Nope. Do I want them too? Sure, it would be nice. Am I going to go for the whole: "whaa I am never making business with them again!"? Don't be stupid, frankly suggesting that it is short of utterly being a retarded notion. However, I am going to be very wary of purchasing their products from now on. I got no problem waiting until a game's price drops to 20 bucks. The problem belies in the fact that BioWare promised a very, very tall order. If they were not going to deliver it - meaning very robust endings with every major choice reflected, then they should have not done it. Talk about shooting yourself on the foot with a *** rocket launcher. BioWare's community might be or might not be "screaming" as you put it. But, when it comes down to the dirt, BioWare brought it upon themselves. "I give you all these tools to craft a story as you please, but at the very end I will only focus on my interpretation of the story". Wtf? Its like paying a hooker a large sum of money for a good BJ, and then after a good time, at the very end, she pours hot sauce on your no-no's and then punches you on the nuts with all her strenght. Some might like it, but I sure was sore and pissed off.
  • The Care Bear Stare you suggested makes almost as much sense as the current ending(s).

  • I also think that the argument that you should "vote with your wallet" valid just up to a certain point. If you go to a great restaurant and they change your order by mistake, you do not vow to never go to that restaurant anymore - you ask the waiter to get your order right. There are several levels of consumer/vendor interaction. Not buying is just one of them, trying to get exactly what you payed for is another.
  • It was refreshing to hear an immature conversation re: the ME3 drama.  I  personally loved the game and it was a hell of rollercoaster ride.  The last few moments just seemed they were trying too hard to try something different at the wrong time.  I have no desire to purchase anymore ME items.  I have am ridden the "femshep" rollercoaster ride and am content.

    I do agree it was one of the most impressive and ambitious video games of all time. But I am done (no matter what DLC developes) with ME and ready for something new and fascinating.

  • I don't see how Bioware releasing new content would "ruin the integrity of the game" at all.  Especially as it appears that Bioware purposefully crafted a cryptic ending in hopes of generating even more DLC sales, as if they didn't already give us enough DLC troubles with Javik.  Javik could totally have been included and would have been worth delaying the game to include.  

    When you're creating entertainment like this, it is important to get fan input.  Especially a game like Mass Effect where the creators have worked very well with fans, even going so far as to make Tali and Garrus romance options (something they're fond of pointing out).  Given all that, I don't see a problem with them changing here, especially given as they've upset a very large part of their fan base.

    No one is advocating that Bioware or any other company should change everything for every little complaint by any fan.  Obviously that would be idiotic and completely unworkable.  However, when you have disappointed such a large section of your highly devoted fan base (those people you're trying to milk for more money with all that DLC), then you have to respond to them.  I'm sure you could find other examples but I know that Charles Dickens changed the ending to Great Expectations when people didn't like his original ending.  I also know that Infamous 2 made some changes when people reacted negatively to the "new" Cole.  I would embrace that video games are an interactive medium and work with that rather then imply that developers should be able to craft whatever garbage they want, call it gold, and then I'm just supposed to sit down and go "oh yeah, this is great!", when it's not.  

    Finally, people are fine with a sad ending, it's not that people want some la-di-da happy happy ending, they just want an ending that provides closure.  Also, how about some different endings rather then just different colored explosions?  ME2 had more variety in its possible endings then ME3.  Also the decisions you made during the game and during the last mission had more of an impact (i.e. upgrades or no upgrades, loyalty missions, picking specialists, etc.).  All in all, Bioware should release free ending DLC and then tack it on every copy of ME3 that ships from here on out.  That's the best way for them to salvage this situation and keep their customers.  That's not being entitled, that's just standing up for yourself.  We have to stand up for ourselves because the company won't do it for us, if we allow them to, they will fleece us.  

  • In a way I agree with matt, phil and joe. Once you pay the money you are pretty much up to the whim of developers, writers, creators. Unfortunately people who get the game at midnight, because they have such high hopes in the game, and they've put their faith into bioware, that they are willing to put down 60 to 80 dollars with little to no information on it. Those people don't have the hundreds of amazon reviews, the reviews from game magazines, because they've put their faith in the company and put their money down with complete faith. For that faith to be rewarded with 3 "endings," which vary very little, other than the fact that you die unless you've played the multiplayer, because that is the only way to get the "good ending." I think people just wanted to see that the work that they've done to join the different races, to have them fight with you, to actually make a difference, which it really did not. I think people, myself included, wanted to see the way things ended with different friends, squadmates, romantic interest, and none of that was paid off. I don't want bioware to change the ending, but I want a dlc that will explain these things, and if it is the "indoc" theory then explain it, not just have some fuzzy people and some absurd second ending where some old guy is telling stories to a kid.
  • Dudes? Jessica. Chobot. The level of commericial pandering present to put her in there to the point to face scanning her just to put her in a role (When in terms of story they already had a perfect character for that role and she existed since the first game) really kinda deals a bodyblow to the whole, "Don't make them change their "art," nonsense.