I don't want to know the ending yet so I guess I will skip this episode. No more spoiler episodes.

I guess you guys nailed when you said that the middle ground was lost, including by you guys.

Although a lot of people were "demanding" things. A ton of people were more concerned with what was advertised (and the overall quality of the product).

As you guys pointed out, please, go to BSN, it is very easy to find Casey Hudson's statements - some of them made to you guys. And most of those statements were made after the game was complete.

They might just be a misunderstanding, but some of them do sound like lies, because they are completely the opposite of what was shown in the endings.

This is more a debate of quality and false advertisement than changing artistic views.

Games are art but are also commercial products - when both things meet, only the artist can truly judge integrity. We don't know, for example, if Bioware left the ending vague just to sell DLC (which would be not artistic at all).

You guys sometimes sound like you are speaking from a moral high ground that really does not exist. But overall I though your debate were quite interesting and very honest.

Are there ANY ME3 spoilers in this? I love your podcasts but I have to hold up on this one if there's any spoilers.

I'm gonna laugh SO hard, when/if Bioware announces that it was, in fact, Indoctrination, both groups have been fighting over nothing, and game critics have been defending a purposely screwed up ending and saying it is art!

Honestly I thought Red Dead Redemption shouldve ended in Mexico. I thought that the last act dragged and the questline involving the quack doctor was unecessary. Had you gone back from mexico and pretty quickly entered the final showdown, i wouldve been happier. I thought the ending itself was great tho

Also, change in interactive media is so very common that I really see no reason for panic (like Bioware is opening a dangerous precedent).

1. Movies change in pre-screening.
2. Games change with DLC (responding to fan demand like Shadow Broker).
3. Games patches are released when something is broken, and some would argue that the ending narrative of ME3 is broken - in a game about narrative.
4. Bioware recently changed a book because it was simply badly written.
5.CD Projekt re-made several scenes of the first Witcher responding to critics and to secure a better launching of the game on US.
6. Musicians have their musics altered and re-edited to tend to some specific audiences.

I understand that a fan saying that he demands something might give you chills, but the truth is if all the complaints were super-polite and reasonable, chances are there would not be a movement on the part of Bioware.

And I think Bioware should move because, as I said, it is a matter of quality and advertising. EA used every "dirt trick" in the book to reach for our wallets. If someone thinks they not got their money's worth I do not see any problem in being loud about it.

Nobody is putting a gun on the developer with those demands. Art exists to cause a reaction on people - this reaction can be anger. If its not the reaction the artist expected I see no problem with him revisiting his work. Specially if he is treating his art as a commodity, as it is ME3 case.

I'll be honest right after I beat ME3 for the first time I was dissapointed in the ending, but after talking with a friend about it, then putting some thought into it, and finally extrapolating on the ending I came to the realization that I actually really enjoyed the ending.

Is there any mention of Bioware's comments about the ending before, during, and after release? They made several promises about the ending, but it is far from what they promised.

Once we solve the ending, we need to focus on a greater mystery: with Liara, does the carpet match the drapes? Feel free to include in any response as many wwww's to the word eww as you deem necessary. (Sorry folks, but I think we could all use a quick laugh break)

I understand the position that Bioware is in. They put out something they thought would cause speculation from their fans, instead it blew up into a massive pr nightmare. They are taking this on the chin, and are assessing what to do now. Do I want a better ending? Yes. Am I happy with how Bioware is handling this? Very much so.

I loved 99.98% of the Mass Effect trilogy. Why can't the last .02% be as good as the rest?
I do not see the harm in Bioware making the series as good as it can be.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/272/737/983.png

I'm not sure if you guys understand... The ending was SO bad for me that it has tarnished my memories of Mass Effect 3 and the series as a whole. It's literally painful to think about going back and replaying them right now. That's a shame, because it might have been my video game series of all-time before this.  

I would just like to say: I didn't care for the ending. I found it flawed. However, I respect BioWare wanting it to end like that and I didn't think it was "bad." I do not think BioWare should "change" the ending, since it is their story, but if they choose to, that is their decision. Great podcast guys. Also, I agree, and I would love to discuss the REST OF THE GAME with someone. One of the best games I've ever played.

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

I would say this guy pretty much nails the Mass Effect discussion

www.youtube.com/watch

You know, I REALLY don't like the way the Mona Lisa turned out. Someone should change it to a blonde chick with huge boobs. I'm starting a petition! WHAAAA! As much as I love video games, sometimes gamers make me sick. You think EA/Bioware screwed you, don't buy their games anymore.

Ok whem Tim dosent like resident evil it ok but when we dont like the ending of mass effect were idiots

its nice to see some people on here are like me. Severly upset about the ending but so absolutly in love with the series as a whole. I cant sit here and gush enough about how amazing I think the series is. These games, to me at least, are like the Star Wars and Indianna Jones trilogy of video games. When you take them as they are, they are unforgetable masterpieces. Art in its purest form. It provoke emotions and thought. Its something special that comes along once in a lifetime almost. Something that will have its place in history. The major complaint is that it doesnt end well. Basically it would be like watching the original trilogy of star wars and the last ten to fifteen minutes of return of the jedi, george lucas has it be nothing but jar jar binks. Or in the case of indianna jones it would be like making a fourth movie where you fight aliens.........wait.......that actually happened. And look where that got the Indianna Jones series? A bad choice, even artistically, has consiquences. This was a BAD artistic choice by Bioware. The "seven" endings are really the same one with very minor variations. And I mean VERY minor. I wouldnt have minded similar endings that had at least a couple MAJOR or a few MINOR variations. But....this set of endings has......little to none. Either Earth goes BOOM, Earth Kinda goes BOOM or Earth doesnt go BOOM and you get one of 3 pretty colors to tell you what you chose. (really this isnt a spoiler since really we all knew earth was either gonna go up in flames or be saved). Honestly I'd love to see them "Broken Steel" ME3. I mean, I'm not expecting to see 100% what I want with an extended game like Fallout 3 did (which i really approved of Broken Steel) but I want to have my choices, my shepards sacrifices, to matter. I sat there after I made my choice.....and.....at first I was like ok....I can see my shepard making this choice and what his fate ultimatly becomes. But after that, it all goes down the crapper. Its MASS DESTRUCTION all around no matter what you choose. And....somehow I guess they developed teleporters during that space fight with the reapers because......How the hell does EDI and Liara end up on the Normandy WHEN THEY WERE ON THE GROUND IN THE FIGHT! YOU TALK TO THEM PRIOR TO THE FINAL ASSAULT! Personally, The Indoctrination Theory which only became aware of over the last couple days is something I hope is true. When you look back at everything throughout ME3 and make some of the connections with information from ME1 to ME2 it makes PERFECT SENSE. And if its cannon is perhaps the most INGENIOUS THING I've seen in a game twist since you were revealed to be Revan in KoTOR. I understand artistic integrity. I've written. I've had to make changes to my work to make it applicable for presentation (a one act play in case you're wondering). Stuff was cut and things were changed or modified. It happens. We may not always be happy as artists when it happens but sometimes you have to understand your audience. Bioware understands its audience. I believe it DOES care about more than just the bottom line.....unlike EA who are just money grubbing dillweeds. But you cant always help who your parent or parent company is. So yea, while I was IMMENSLY unhappy with the ending to the ME trilogy, I support the purchase and continued discussion of its pure awsomeness. Its a series worth having in your 360 collection. Sorry PS3, we got to it first lol. Take your genesis dlc. I get the first game, you get an interactive DLC comic book. But you can still buy 2 and 3 on the PS3 and you should do so. I just want Bioware to fix this ONE FLAW......ok one of TWO FLAWS. Seriously....Tali's reveal.......SHAME BIOWARE! BETRAYAL!!!!!!!!! We are above photoshoping you guys. You have the technology to CREATE AN IMAGE. You dont need to doctor one. But whether the Indoctrination Theory is the true goal here by Bioware and it was just SO subtle that most if not all of us missed it then I'm ok with them doing DLC. If its not but we can STILL get a proper send off and maybe some minor adjustments to the endings or even some new ones to replace some of the weaker ones that gives us the closure and corrects the continuity and plot hole errors (like how would a turian or quarian survive on human food? think about it Bioware and for those who have finished the game. You know what I'm talking about here) So please dont think of this as giving into pressure. Its nothing like that. I'm not a bully and so are a majority of the rest of us who are so underwhelmed and upset with the ending. Not all of us are part of the retake mass effect 3 movement (i'm not). Not all of us want to run to the FTC like the slow kid who saw the ice cream truck go by. We just want the integrity of our individual stories as well as the integrity of the series itself and bioware to remain intact. We may not get 100% of what we want with DLC or altered endings through patches. But I'd be satisfied if I at least got 50%. Hell 25%. I just want to know that what I went through over the last 5 years with 2 playthroughs matters. Its not just about the money I spent. Its the emotion and time I put into this that matters. That matters to all of us. I can understand if you like the ending presented already. And like others on here I can respect your decision to feel that way. I dont like how it ended. It doesnt feel like an ending. It feels like a bad dream (and yea that last one was an INTENTIONAL jab for those who've watched the vid on the Theory.....still bad choice if thats the case Bioware. Never pull a Super Mario Brothers 2. Ever.....) Sorry this was so long. I've already posted on this subject in another article about the ending. And I know it seems like all everyone is talking about IS the ending. But thats the most important part of any media. The end result. Are you happy with it or not? Was it good or not? Its all about the execution and the conclusion. The execution overall was top notch. The ending......falls flat. Still an 8.5 game for me. I'd have rated it higher even WITH the ending. But....seriously photoshopping? I cant stand for such laziness and corner cutting like that. Especially from Bioware. I dont care if EA does own your company even THEY arent that cheap. But again. Mass Effect Triology Triple A all the way. Go buy it. SUPPORT SHEPARD AND HIS CAUSE!!!

I think you guys (GI) are blowing the "new precedent" aspect of this thing a bit out of proportion. Developers and publishers aren't going to suddenly start kowtowing to irrational fan bases. Fans aren't suddenly going to demand personalized perfection in every game. This issue isn't about changing the industry, it's about the presentation quality of the climax of a single game and whether it "succeeded".

I loved every aspect of Mass Effect 3 except for the ending, which I thought was rather abrupt. I don't hate it, but I'm not satisfied with it. BioWare didn't ruin the series for me, but they dropped the ball a tad. I felt as though the ending was made simply for a powerful moment rather than a natural narrative conclusion.

Adding explanation via DLC doesn't compromise the game's message or BioWare's integrity. It shows that they're aware of an unhappy fan base that they truly have no obligation to respond to, yet still feel some commitment towards. And wanting to know more details about the ending doesn't demonize the fans. It shows investment in the universe presented and loyalty to the canon of the world that was sold to them.

I certainly agree, though, that irrational complaining and vicious personal attacks aren't the proper response to this sort of thing. It's uncalled for and damaging to both the creator/consumer relationship and the cause.

I thought your discussion was slightly unbalanced, but very fair. Thanks for giving this issue your attention, keep up the quality work.

It's not that we should just choose to buy it because we'd think it is a good game or not; it's about having spent over $150 on this trilogy, getting emotionally involved in a great story and being PROMISED that our choices throughout the games matter. We just expected that the story would actually make sense instead of space color magic and godkids.

I'm glad to hear you guys talking about this whole fiasco intelligently and as objectively as humanly possible. I honestly don't know how you guys choose your words so carefully sometimes, but bravo.

Being in the publishing business, you guys should know better. Sometimes you choose to "make it right" in order to appease your customers because most businesses can't afford to lose the faith of those they serve. Games are no different than the products you or I put out. It is a product that a person is paying real money for. Because it is a creative work, they are not only inviting it into their homes, but also into their hearts. If that product disappoints, a company can choose to stand its ground. In one instance my boss did just that and for a grueling six months we faced a lot of public backlash -- angry phone calls, loss of customers and even people storming into our business demanding a change. When we made a change, mind you we didn't fully cave in, people were satisifed that they were heard and their concerns were respected. I would say most publishing entities have made long changes with their bottomlines and their customers' wishes in mind. Sure, you don't want to destroy the integrity of the creative process, but I'm sure that not every story your staff has written or every video your staff has produced has been published. And, if so, than I'm positive it has been edited and/or approved for publication. Also, if something you produced faced such a backlash, you too would be considering what you could do to address the situation. If a precedent has been set, it was long before Bioware made it's decision. Even Michelangelo had patrons he had to appease.